Curse

Slade xTekno · May 26, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

This horse has beaten beaten past death into the depths of hell itself. However, it is still a very large problem, so I'm simply going to list a few suggestions along with the simple logic behind them.

1] The Celestial Sigil is awarded in the final PvE mission.
-PvPers receive sigils for succeeding at the pinnacle of their style of play - the Hall of Heroes. Why not give it to PvEers who have done everything?
-This could also be applied as a reward for an additional bonus.

2] The Celestial Sigil is awarded for completing a mission in one of the new PvE areas coming out.
-This would create an enormous public outcry. However, I don't believe it will be negative, which is something ANet could use to its advantage.
-Again, this gives PvEers a chance to obtain a sigil without touching the other half of the game, just like PvP is currently capable of doing the same.

3] The Celestial Sigil is actually sold at the Sigil Trader at a set price [let's say 50 Platinum Pieces].
[This is drastic, and should only be used if the problem gets more out of problem than it already is. The consequences of this action are pretty obvious]
-Every other non-weapon item in the economy can be bought from traders. Chances are, you can find a much better deal from other players, who's selling price soon drops to the point they no longer profit. They then turn to the traders, the prices rise, and the beautiful wheel of a free market economy turns.
-As an item that only enters the game through PvP, the pricing at the Sigil Trader is skewed to the whim of the small number of players who possess these items.
-As such, to keep it from getting out of hand, a set price rather than a fluctuating one at the trader will help keep the selling price of the players down, for they risk not being able to sell it at all otherwise.

If any of the above suggestions are implemented, two ladders will probably have to be implemented - one for the newer guilds and one for the hundred highest-ranked guilds. However, this is a detail we can leave undiscussed until after, if ever, this happens.

Moskel · May 26, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Note: If you are just into PvE....YOU DO NOT NEED A GUILD HALL.

GvG is the pinnacle of PvP combat, just like finishing the last misison is the pinnacle of PvE.

If you want to get access to the pinnacle of PvP combat go win the HoH or get together whatever the market price is and pay it.

If your guild really is that into PvE then even 100 plat (which is the max an item can realistically sell for since that is the most money a player can carry) is no big deal. Any active L20 should be able to make 10 plat in one evening of playing, 10 people in your guild, 10 plat each...there is your Sigil in one day.

Another thing to keep in mind is this game is brand new, if everything in the game just falls out of a Cracker Jack box then what is the compelling reason to keep playing? What do you have to strive for?

Really as the economy progresses Sigils will probably turn into a form of currency worth somewhere between 25-100p each. This will allow the price of other items to exceed 100p (like Superior Vigor or Absorption runes, of which both are quickly headed there). They tried to change this some with the increased proliferation of Sigils from HoH and the trader during the last patch (this is why they may eventually turn into 25p currency and not 100p currency).

vai demine · May 26, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

Note: If you are just into PvE....YOU DO NOT NEED A GUILD HALL.

This doesn't have to be a question of need. Some RP guilds and PvE guilds may want a guild hall. And they should be able to get one. It is bad form to have a desirable element of the game not be available to some people strictly because of the way they choose to play the game. The game is all about guilds, why should guilds be restricted based on the type of guild they are?

That being said, I believe that patience is the key here. The game isn't even a month old yet. I think Moskel is right about sigil prices. They'll drop eventually. And having the Sigil as a reward at some point in PvE is also a good idea--perfect for those RP guilds who never intend on engaging in PvP.

Vai

Dagbiker · May 26, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

very true, if you were just about need why play guild wars at all? you dont need fun

thorizdin · May 26, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Slade,

I wouldn't mind a change like this, but significant changes to how PvP is rewarded would be required.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

-Again, this gives PvEers a chance to obtain a sigil without touching the other half of the game, just like PvP is currently capable of doing the same.

This is incorrect, there were a few days, immediately following release, that all pre-made teams were able to hold the HoH, that is no longer the case. PvP'ers are required to PvE to be competitive. Change this and I would fully support a change to how Sigil's were dropped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

-Every other non-weapon item in the economy can be bought from traders. Chances are, you can find a much better deal from other players, who's selling price soon drops to the point they no longer profit. They then turn to the traders, the prices rise, and the beautiful wheel of a free market economy turns.

What about Runes? The PvP community needs them to compete, but has to grind for those items. A Rune vendor would be a welcome addition

slasc · May 26, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

Note: If you are just into PvE....YOU DO NOT NEED A GUILD HALL.

Having a Guild Hall is essentially the only way your guild is legitimized in this game. It doesn't matter if you are PVE or PVP. You then have a place to call "home". For anyone who says "PvE guild don't need a guild hall" they are technically right. Only PvP guilds that engage in GvG NEED a Guild Hall, but everyone should be able to get one without discrimination over what they are going to use it for. Everyone wants one, and every guild deserves the opportunity to get one.

Slade xTekno · May 26, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorizdin

This is incorrect, there were a few days, immediately following release, that all pre-made teams were able to hold the HoH, that is no longer the case. PvP'ers are required to PvE to be competitive. Change this and I would fully support a change to how Sigil's were dropped.

I didn't say it was likely, but it is possible.

As of now, it is impossible to get a Celestial Sigil through PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorizdon

What about Runes? The PvP community needs them to compete, but has to grind for those items. A Rune vendor would be a welcome addition

However, like other items, there is a generous market for these items among the players.
To be honest, I think a rune vendor would be really cool if you made it so you didn't unlock the ones you bought from him.

Slade xTekno · May 26, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

Note: If you are just into PvE....YOU DO NOT NEED A GUILD HALL.

Just because it is not necessary does not make an object undesireable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

GvG is the pinnacle of PvP combat, just like finishing the last misison is the pinnacle of PvE.

However, PvPers get something to show for it. What do PvEers get?
If it were the other way around, I bet you'd be annoyed/upset/angry/pissed as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

If you want to get access to the pinnacle of PvP combat go win the HoH or get together whatever the market price is and pay it.

If your guild really is that into PvE then even 100 plat (which is the max an item can realistically sell for since that is the most money a player can carry) is no big deal. Any active L20 should be able to make 10 plat in one evening of playing, 10 people in your guild, 10 plat each...there is your Sigil in one day.

I take it you already possess one of these Guild Halls. By any chance did it cost you 15k?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

Another thing to keep in mind is this game is brand new, if everything in the game just falls out of a Cracker Jack box then what is the compelling reason to keep playing? What do you have to strive for?

If you recall, this is no longer the case.
Skills are no longer handed to you like they were in the betas, and trainers now only carry the skills you missed between them. All Elite Skills now must be captured [minus the ones in the Templates].
Also, there are no vendors for weapons, weapon upgrades, or runes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

Really as the economy progresses Sigils will probably turn into a form of currency worth somewhere between 25-100p each. This will allow the price of other items to exceed 100p (like Superior Vigor or Absorption runes, of which both are quickly headed there). They tried to change this some with the increased proliferation of Sigils from HoH and the trader during the last patch (this is why they may eventually turn into 25p currency and not 100p currency).

Do you honestly expect that to happen anytime soon?
If you recall, some guilds circumvent the gold cap by asking you for additional unidentified gold items.

Slade xTekno · May 26, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by slasc

Having a Guild Hall is essentially the only way your guild is legitimized in this game. It doesn't matter if you are PVE or PVP. You then have a place to call "home". For anyone who says "PvE guild don't need a guild hall" they are technically right. Only PvP guilds that engage in GvG NEED a Guild Hall, but everyone should be able to get one without discrimination over what they are going to use it for. Everyone wants one, and every guild deserves the opportunity to get one.

I like your point. Without a structure to call your own, you Guild is actually more of an affiliation.

I honestly believe the changes I listed would do very well if they were made alongside the introduction of role-playing districts, for they would legitimize the "Guild Halls for PvEers" argument. The Guild Hall would serve as a base of operations in which Guild Members can plan out their adventures. Think of it as your personal Batcave.

Lasher Dragon · May 26, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

If you are just into PvP YOU DO NOT NEED RUNES OR UNLOCKS. I mean sure, it would make competing a lot easier for you, but you don't need them.

Sounds pretty silly does it not? Try recruiting for a guild in PvE without a Guild Hall. Sure you can do it, but it's a bit silly.

dansamy · May 26, 2005, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I just want to say: Thank You, ArenaNet! With the new update, I was able to get a Sigil from the trader not too many hours after the update. I still paid 65k for it, which was 2x the going rate when my guild 1st started saving up. By the time we had hit 30k, the price was 60k. By the time we hit 60k, it had jumped again to 100k, and we were getting rather disheartened. We were convinced that if nothing was done the market would continually outpace our earnings and we would be forced to grind for hours on end in Tombs until we could win HoH with a PUG. We have 3-5 truly active players. The rest of our members are casual "once-a-week" people. I am glad that ArenaNet viewed the shortage as a problem that needed to be resolved, rather than letting it fall by the wayside. (Now if we could just do something about those eBayers!)

Slade xTekno · May 27, 2005, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

I just want to say: Thank You, ArenaNet! With the new update, I was able to get a Sigil from the trader not too many hours after the update. I still paid 65k for it, which was 2x the going rate when my guild 1st started saving up. By the time we had hit 30k, the price was 60k. By the time we hit 60k, it had jumped again to 100k, and we were getting rather disheartened. We were convinced that if nothing was done the market would continually outpace our earnings and we would be forced to grind for hours on end in Tombs until we could win HoH with a PUG. We have 3-5 truly active players. The rest of our members are casual "once-a-week" people. I am glad that ArenaNet viewed the shortage as a problem that needed to be resolved, rather than letting it fall by the wayside. (Now if we could just do something about those eBayers!)

This is slightly off-topic from my post, but I take it as a compliment to ANet for their work so far and the fact that they didn't have to pay nearly as much as they would have.

Please post comments relating to my suggestion.

Sting · May 27, 2005, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Why make it complicated just have the Sigal Vendors sell Sigals. PvPers will still PvP and PvEers will still PvE. As for ruins The PvEers do have an advantage there but they usually sell them at fairly reasonable rates. Although sigals are more rare 100K is excessive IMO.

Id care to guess that since Guild Halls are instanced this is A-Nets way of trying to limmit their server requirements (after they dont have a monthly subscription to help keep the server costs in line) they have to cut corners somewhere.

Xellos · May 27, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

You realize most people who finish the game have more then enough to pay 65k for a sigil, which is the current "standard price" today, which is a far cry lower then 100k. I thought guild halls were suppose to be earned by a group. At least in tombs, you work as a team to earn the sigils. A cheap bum cost that even one person can afford without breaking a sweat? I'm hurt. Awell, I guess the top PVP only prize at the moment is worth less then salvage drops.

As for PVE solutions, I rather it'd be something harder. Underworld/Fissure, anything that's impossible for it to be soloable or stupid like last mission. If everyone got one at last mission, no one would buy them ever. It'd be worthless. It'd be awesome to have a guild-only team PVE quest, which forces you to work together with your guild in some random enviroment quest or something. It would be hard, probably harder then fissure/underworld, and at that point you wouldn't even be able to get the sigil, you just earn the hall, so you can't farm it. That way, it forces your guild to work as a team, just like earning it in halls forces you to work as a team. Anyone complaining that this isn't solo friendly needs to figure out what the words guild hall means. Having one for the sake of having a house to yourself is no excuse for not having 100k.